"A couple of stories.
A TRUE tale of two GM workers.
One, employed for four years, gets a buy-out package last fall of $35,000 and a brand new Malibu.
Another, employed for 20 years, gets $165,000, the car and a full pension".

Neither of those is true. The four-year worker would have recieved $35,000, but would not have recieved a car.

The 20 year worker would have recived $68,000, no car, would only recieve whatever pension they had accumulated, and could not begin getting it until age 65. They would have given up everything else, including benefits.

Roger, can you fill me in on where we fought for the right to dress like slobs? That's news to me. What we did object to was being forced to wear coveralls in the summer.

To put it in perspective, these plants are sweat shops during the summer months. At one work station where I worked 10 years it was not uncommon for the temperature there to hit 120 degrees. There are no windows, no ventilation, etc. It's not uncommon for workers to pass out in the heat, be taken to the nurses station, cooled down, given liquids, and then sent back to the line.

The race to the bottom for working families is off and running---and, amazingly, people on this site are applauding while it happens. You want to break the unions and turn your lives over to the same management teams that got us into this mess in the first place? Will conservatives be happy until everyone in Canada is working for Chinese wages just to have a job? Slaves had jobs, is that what you want for Canada?

Paulsrants:

This debate keeps going back and forth while the Auto Industry burns.

Just imagine how upset you would be if your child was at the E.R. with a Compounded fractured thigh bone and all the E.R. workers and Doctors kept fighting over how the leg was actually broken and who was at fault for the bone punching through the skin.

This fighting goes on as your child slowly dies from blood loss and infection , BUT....once the E.R. team agrees on how the injury happened and which Tax Dollars will cover the bill to save the leg....it now must be cut off from infections but now the upper body is infected and the Charade goes on until the victim is chopped into pieces until they are dead.

Lets stay focused on keeping the system alive and not fight over how the victim got sick .

I would take issue with your $76 an hour figure ( that figure is not what a current worker costs, they have added in retiree costs to current workers to fluff the figure, current hourly wage is about $32 an hour, which is comparable to the Import plants).

I hope you would take a look at my blog and read before lumping the average worker in with the idiocy of Buzz Hargrove and Ken Lewenza.

http://paulsrants-paulsstuff.blogspot.com/

Excellent post, Paul. And, for the record, I never accused the auto workers of idiocy, only the union that claims to represent them.

I abhor Unions, I actually worked at McDonnell Douglas back in the early 90's before the CAW killed that place. 5000 people worked there at the time, now it's a bulldozed flat lot.
BUT, and its a BIG BUT, it drives me insane that most people, and all of the media really miss the big picture on this sore point.
YES the CAW needs to be broken, BUT, for every one of those overpaid louts, there are at least 10 UNDERPAID people toiling away at places like Magna and many other Teir 1 and 2 Automotive suppliers, not to mention the companies that supply the suppliers. Huge numbers of people depend on the auto industry for thier livings. Right down to the companies that supply the toilet paper.
Seriously, if the industry dies in Ontario, we will be a generation recovering, if we ever do.
Just to underscore the size, in 2006 for the first time in history, Ontario produced more Automobiles than Michigan. Really. Think about that.
What should have happened is that GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to go bankrupt back in Nov-Dec 08. that way, the 3-4 month total shutdown that is looming now would have been just about over by now, before the worst of the financial storm hit Canada, which is about to happen as we are 3-4 months behind the US. By mid summer, there will be a lot more people out of work and losing their houses, going under. Count on it. And the Auto Industry collapse will hurt every single one of us.
The problem is that the Bast**ds at the CAW have us over a barrel, Yes they are grossly overpaid, but too many people depend on them working for any serious changes to be made without real damage being done to the economy.
I work in the sector, and we supply industrial tools. our business is down 60% over the same time last year, and we have laid off 50% of our staff. Western Ontario is shutting down because of slowdowns and shutdowns at the big three, Toyota just went back to five days a week after 3 months at 4 days, and Honda is still at 4 days. And those are the bright spots.
Anyway, I agree that the CAW needs to be broken, but be aware of what is coming when they are. At least until GM and Chrysler get sorted out.

A couple of stories.
A TRUE tale of two GM workers.
One, employed for four years, gets a buy-out package last fall of $35,000 and a brand new Malibu.
Another, employed for 20 years, gets $165,000, the car and a full pension.

A couple lives up near Orillia, but buys a house in the GTA that they can barely afford, because the only real work is in the GTA. They are cutting it a little close, because the price of real estate in the GTA is insane. The slowdown comes, they decide to sell the house because, why wait until you are in real trouble, and besides, the prime earner has now been cut to 4 days a week (non-union, no benefits).
The Bank says that it will cost $4000.00 in penalties to pay off the mortgage. They get an offer on the house in three weeks, all is well, right?
WRONG> they check the numbers with the Bank, and since the interest rates have dropped in those three weeks, the penalty is now (get this) $17,250.00
But the Bank can offer them $300.00 off that number as a discount.
And since it will now cost them $35,000.00 to sell the house and they simply don't have it, it is just a matter of time until they are forced to walk away and go bankrupt.
Why is nobody talking about the predators at your local branch. They are making a killing from desperate people just trying to do the right thing and sell.
Very scary.

It's going to be a bad year.

Just today i heard that the CAW members fought for the benefits that include:
Legal costs for a Divorce,Health care in USA on holidays,Full dental,various discounts at retail Companies and many other obscene hand-outs expected from the Big-3 .

It takes a special helluva nerve for a group of Union members to demand that Canadians fill their garages with CAW products while they themselves shop at Big-Box stores to fill their Homes with imported Electronics and Kitchen Appliances that are made or assembled by non-Union slave-labour wages in Mexico and China.

Since the 80's I have seen many Canadian Manufactures in Toronto that were forced into closing down for good or to shift productions to a cheaper source .
We now see that the CAW members enjoy the increased Buying-Power in their pay check because of WalMart,FutureShop,BestBuy,and even the cheaper Imported cars seen in the Plant parking lots at FORD/GM/Chrysler .

I stopped buying CAW cars when I saw a news clip one night where the Assembly Line workers fought for the Right to dress like Slobs while at work.
We are all Walking-Billboards that advertize what's inside us , and if these workers appear to NOT give a damn about themselves......then how can I feel assured that they give a damn about the Car they are assemblying for me.

Just ask any CAW member with a Daughter if they would want her to marry a guy that dressed like a slob and whined endlessly about their "Entitlements" for others to support their Employment and keep up their LifeStyle standards.

BTW
I don't believe for one second that the labour costs for building a car is only 7% of the final costs.
Either they are saying that there is a 97% profit margin,or all the other Union/Non union workers are working for FREE like Happy-Elves inside Tree Trunks.
The media and Unions have never ever shown the Public an entire process for building a car because it may show the senior workers doing the lest amount of work for the highest salary and longest vacation time and benefits.
The CAW and UAW created a Ponze-Scheme that has finally collapsed under its own weight,this is much like the Pyramid-Scam that runs out of suporters at the base that pay for the people at the tip of the Pyramid who drawn money from the cash Pool.

Sorry guys,everyone is guilty for this huge Charade by the Big-3,Unions,and Governments that lied to stay in power or lie to get Elected with hollow promises of Jobs-4-Life to Unions and Public Workers.

Renee, it just occurred to me that you were suggesting that fringe costs are a further 100% of wage costs, not 50%! Crap, that's even worse, and even further from reality with most businesses.

Are you sure you have run a real business or done a payroll before?

Renee, WTF? The average $25/h worker most certainly does not cost twice that just to employ!

In the case of the Big-3 automakers, the average worker might be costing that, but not in the average industry. That's part of the problem here! The 'average' business would typically incur about half that in fringe costs.

For a more 'typical' business, you would see fringe costs like...

CPP: 4%
EI: 2%
EHT: 2%
WSIB: 3%
Group Ins: 5%
Pension: 4%

Of course, these amounts will vary by industry and employer, but they don't total anywhere near 50%!

Offering gold-plated defined-benefit pensions and limitless health plans that bring your fringe costs to 50% is a great way to make any business uncompetitive and bankrupt.

Um… you do realize, of course, that $76 is the total cost, including things like WCB benefits, pensions, health premiums, EI, CPP, taxes, and insurance?

Um... you do realize, of course, that THAT IS STILL A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY!!!!!!!

What??? I manage a 160 strong IT department for a major organisation, and with all benefits included my gross is $63 an hour, and some friggin' wrench jockey who puts together a sub-standard product pulls $76... Let 'em eat cake for all I care. Not one cent of my taxes to support their ridiculous demands. They'll get my sympathy when they accept a wage that actually reflects what their labour is worth, and it sure as shite ain't $76 an hour, all bennies included... not with the garbage they're making.

Um... you do realize, of course, that $76 is the total cost, including things like WCB benefits, pensions, health premiums, EI, CPP, taxes, and insurance? You do know that the average $25/h worker COSTS 2x that just to employ, right? Have you ever run a business or done a payroll??

Yes, I am aware. I have ran my own business for 9 years. This is the 3rd company I've owned.

RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON!!!